| ah pek | 1. How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-20 01:30:24
How do you know your God is real? If I were to ask a buddhist, hindu, muslim etc they will all give me a common answer that their God(s) is real. Can you tell me from a Christian standpoint as well as logical point of view that your God is real.
| | Guest | 2. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-24 09:06:37
To be simple, i've asked my dad bout this question, and heres his reply:
Quote:
"How do you know your God is real? If I were to ask a buddhist, hindu, muslim etc they will all give me a common answer that their God(s) is real. Can you tell me from a Christian standpoint as well as logical point of view that your God is real"
form here, i'll tell from the history point of view:
Jesus miracles has been seen by many people. Every action he done has eye witness to prove it. Even in the history books in the library (if you really wan to find out you'll have to find some real thick,heavy history books) shows that Jesus exist and done miracles. Unlike budda and muhamad, they receive claim they receive revelations from God, but without any witness. Muhamad got his revelations in a cave, even that no one is there to prove and to be eye witness of what happen in the cave.
(Read Matthew 24: 4-5, 26 ) sry cant copy it out due to time, but in short it told us not to be deceive by people claimning seeing Christ is in the desert or in places like cave.
thats my opinion for this thing, do hope i did not make things complicated.
Galadriel | | Jack | 3. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-24 09:35:21
Galadriel strike the cord at "history".
The way to go around this religion thingy is to examine carefully each religions' claim about itself and the world and have them check against reality. one thing for sure, one claim rejects another. All claims to Truth are exclusive, to say something is true is to reject all other claim against it. Even the most "inclusive" of all religion (for eg. Bahaism) becomes at once, in the final analysis, intolerant of and intolerable to "exclusive" religions such as christianity. therefore, all roads cannot lead to rome.
You will note:
Theology Proper
1) Buddhism does not believe in an almighty One god the way Judaism, Christianity and Islam do.
2) The understanding of the being of god in Christianity and Islam is totaly different
3) Hinduism concept of pantheism is essentially different from Judaism concept of a god who is wholly different from Creation.
The Problem
1) Buddhism understood the world as a suffering field, and there is a problem with living being put on a never ending cycle of birth, but essentially everything is maya - illusion. This is a concept which Buddhism has affinity with Hinduism
2) Christianity believes in sin which affects the whole creation including humanity and all man (and woman) are born radically corrupted, dead in sin
3) Islam taught that though man are rebellious against god, we are all born fitrah - good. Our circumstances corrupts us as we grow up.
Soteriology (salvation)
1) The Buddha taught that the only way to be free from suffering is to cut off the root of suffering which is attachment to temporal things. Therefore salvation lies in being dispasssionate, detaching oneself from everything, including oneself. Buddhism does not believe in soul, the immortal consciousness which lives on after death. This is a radical partaway from Hinduism's concept of atman.
2) Hinduism, esp. the baghavad gita taught salvation in different yogic path: by one's vocation, by religious ritual OR by one's faith, any of one these.
3) Christianity taught that salvation is only in the redeeming work of Jesus Christ who tru his death on the cross has paid the penalty for the sins of those who believe in him.
4) Islam taught that submission to god and the obedience to the teachings of Muhammad is the way to wrought forgiveness from god.
The Goal
1) Buddha say, nowhere - like the candle whose light is blown off, so is the enlightened person in nibbana.
2) Hinduism say, the ocean - like a drop of water returning to the great ocean, so is the soul who returns to the Atman
3) Christianity say, you'll live again - just as Christ had died and now alive, so shall the righteous be resurrected to eternal life.
4) Islam say paradise - probably something like christianity, but less articulation on resurrection life
5) Judaism say, Jerusalem... 
All of them can be false, but surely all of them cannot be true at the same time. Well, there are more which one can dig into.
But if i start from Jesus, if his disciples' claim was true, that he was crucified a would-be Messiah and then was resurrected after his death, this would probably be the most astonishing thing in the whole of history, and definitely worth our attentive audience.
| | ah pek | 4. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-25 07:08:10
Hi Jack thanks for the explanation, the comparison and all makes it easier to understand compare to the main page which I find it at times a little too deep. You seem to have a good understanding of other religion. I'll be glad if you have more to write about this. | | ah pek | 5. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-25 07:35:29
Religion is man made, there is possibility that it is flaw/wrong, right? What if there is really no God. Once you are dead its the end. No heaven no hell. Since those who have gone before us will not be able to come back & tell us that there is a God, heaven and hell etc. We only have the word of God (Bible) to tell us this. If I were to think a little further, they are not even dead, how are they suppose to know. | | Galadriel | 6. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-25 08:43:08
Juz a comnent....
Quote
''Once you are dead its the end''
Its a half true and half untrue thing. Yes after u die, you cant come back to the world. ''But those who belive in him shall receive eternal life (John 3:16)'' Thats the christian point of view.
Quote
''Since those who have gone before us will not be able to come back & tell us that there is a God, heaven and hell etc''
well....will you belive a person if he or she claim they die and come back to the world and claim to see God himself ? people will think he/she is mentor problem or something. And their family members (lets say its not a christian but some other religion) minght think they saw a ghost and goodness...i can imagine they themself wont believe its her/him.
| | Jack | 7. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-25 09:35:05
Good point Galadriel.
Ah pek, i can see you are trying to play the devil's advocate thru your all your questions. I welcome that, it's great!
A side note, I apologize if the response in the main page is confusing. I just thought we have to go tru the preliminary process to lay the ground work on "knowledge" and "truth" before proceeding further. The Truth is simple, but never easy, so i always encourage folks to sweat it out kau kau in the pursuit of the Truth. This is part of my conviction of being a Christian who worship a god who claimed to be "the way, the truth and the life", i.e. taking Truth with utter seriousness.
You are right, all of us could be wrong, or right...many many moons ago, the great mathematician/scientist Blaise Pascal proposed a bet (it's called a Pascalian Wager):
1) If you bet that there's NO afterlife and there is NO afterlife, you WON your bet, period.
2) If you bet that there IS afterlife and there is NO afterlife, you LOST your bet, period.
3) If you bet there IS afterlife and there IS afterlife, you WON your bet and reap the fruit of afterlife.
4) If you bet there is NO afterlife and there IS afterlife, you LOST your bet and go to hell.
The wager is to appeal to the basest of human being, one who care-less for any other thing than his own skin. Probably may work well with many chinese ..hehehehe... (i am a chinese, so it's a self-critic).
Let's take a bet!
| | martianunlimited | 8. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-26 03:20:28
>> 1) If you bet that there's NO afterlife and there is NO afterlife, you
>> WON your bet, period.
>> 2) If you bet that there IS afterlife and there is NO afterlife, you
>> LOST your bet, period.
>> 3) If you bet there IS afterlife and there IS afterlife, you WON your
>> bet and reap the fruit of afterlife.
>> 4) If you bet there is NO afterlife and there IS afterlife, you LOST
>> your bet and go to hell.
Ahh.. the good old prisoner's dilema in game theory... very interesting bet especially after you put an an infinite weigh for the consequence (and 0 for the nonconsequence)
I hate to think... i prefer to live my life without having to think about this, but this question compels some thought which i just cannot let go. I am quite a scientific person, i have an adequate grasp in physics to understand the theories put forth by the scientific community. So i will give you what i believe in based on what i understand of science... So unless you are a geek/nerd, prepared to be thoroughly bored. Also note these are MY personal believes, and my own convictions
I believe in a Creator God
Current theories about the beginnings of the universe leaves more questions than answers. The Big Bang theory can only explain the formation of matter, but we know that it does not (and cannot) explain the origins. You know Einstein's famous equation E=mc^2... now consider the amount of energy required to cause big bang in the first place. some argue that this may be a zero sum and this is "balanced" by the existance of anti-matter... While anti-matter exists, they are very transient, and given the amount of matter and the time the universe is supposed to be in existance, we would have been blown out of inexistance if the zero sum theory is true.
I believe in an Intelligent Designer
Our universal constants implies perfection in design, the conditions of earth and the complexity of creation. I simply refuse to believe that everything could happen by chance. It will be too much a leap of faith for me. There is a possiblity that when you throw yourself from a building, there will be enough air molecules trapped underneath you to float or even lift you upwards... that's about a few orders of magnitude more probable then the universe (and everything in it) froming by chance. I am not willing to take that chance.
I denounce the theory of evolution
I find this theory to be incomplete, and the implications of the theory incidious. First why did the first single cell decide to be a multicell.Why are there no "in betweens" (2 or more unicell organisim operating as a symbiote) . our human bodies is also counter progressive to evolution. a large (and wasteful) brain does not fit into the model of efficiency. (also i refuse to accept the implications of evolution of the weaker race is "food" for the stronger one (see eugenics))
I believe in a personal God and a personal relationship with Him
Mankind have always have the question "Who am I? Where was I from? and Where will I be going?" To me this questions begs for a understanding on the meaning of life and implies that man is ingrained with the desire to know about god.
I believe in man being created in the image of God
I believe that emoting and expressing oneself is a unique attribute shared only with God. Humankind also has a sense of morality and justice which although tends to be skewed and twisted depending on society and culture (see next point) implies the value and importance we place on these 2 attributes.
I believe in the sinful nature of man (due to the fall).
I believe that mankind has a sinful nature, and this is evident even in little children. That despite their innocence, they have a rebellious and selfish streak in them. Human morality and justice can be so self serving that although good in origin, can be distorted for the absolvation of guilt and expression of indignation. | | Jack | 9. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-27 09:07:28
Ah Pek,
If you are interested, i have written some stuff on buddhism & christianity:
The Cross and the Lotus: A Dialogue on Sufferings
http://jack.civiblog.org/blog/Religion/_archives/2005/10/10/1291283.html
My God the Deva?
http://jack.civiblog.org/blog/Christianity/_archives/2006/5/20/1971317.html#comments
If you are living nearby, come join us on Saturdays and we can interact more, and i will definitely be glad to put a face to the name. Drop me an email if you are interested to join us at YACHT meetings: scheekeong[at]gmailcom
| | ah pek | 10. RE: How do you know you are worshipping a true God? | 2007-01-30 22:09:11
thanks all for your reply...an intresting read on some of your topic | |
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