| Unregistered Guest | 1. Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-06 11:12:18
There are a few question that has been in my mind for quite a long time. I'll list it in numbers.
1)Why do women need to wear head veil during worship?
2)If a woman who is not baptise but belives in the Lord Jesus Christ, does she needs to wear a head veil?
3)Is it wrong if a woman doesnt wear head veil?
4) Some churches let the woman go without head veil while other churches make it a must for woman to wear head veil.Is the church wrong in mistranslating what the scriptures says?
I really do hope it'll be answer as soon as possible...thanks!! | | martianunlimited | 2. RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-06 20:01:11
Well, you are in luck... this is one of the topics we will be doing for our tikar talk. (Probably in February by one of our sisters) Do join us and share your opinion.
Honestly, we don't know. To Yay sayers, the timelessness of scriptures will imply that they must wear veil. To nay sayers, they say it's a cultural thing, (according to them unveiled women in the time of Paul were prostitutes)
My opinion, (and let me stress that this is opposed to the general stand of my assembly and the brethren denomination) is that you do as you are convicted to. I am more inclined to say it's a cultural thing. I find it ironic that Paul being so "liberal" on circumcision, and food would be so hard on veiling. Should veil be required only for corporate Sunday worship? What about other worship services, and personal worship? (The context of 1 Cor 11 is propriety in worship). Does that imply that women are not actually silent since they are supposed to veil when they pray and prophesy?
My thoughts on question 4 is... ultimately any decisions that the church leadership makes is answerable to God, but the church constitutes the individual believers and the believers should do individually as the Spirit convicts them.
Anyway read 1 Cor 11, and do tell us what you think | | Unregistered Guest | 3. RE: RE: RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-06 22:23:39
Now its quite confusing in the text u told me about. In verse 6, there were points where Paul say if a woman does not cover head, she should have her hair cut or shaved off. Now woman nowdays usually (expecially the elderly ones) have short hair and some of them might be bald (due to old age or after some sort of disease) do Pual means this woman can go unveil? in verse 14, it spoke of men having long hair is a disgrace to himself. But some christian brothers were keeping long hair. Are they disgracing themself? | | martianunlimited | 4. RE: RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-07 12:09:17
This is why, at this point i believe it\'s a cultural context. if we examine the reason why Paul asked women to wear veil, it\'s because it\'s a sign of submission. this is why personally i would prefer not to harp on the issue of the outward.. but of the inward. | | ah pek | 5. RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-08 22:16:27
My point of view, it doesn't matter if a person put on veil or a guy keeps long hair...the bottom line is what is in his/her heart that matters. as long as he/she believes & acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord then he/she is saved. Putting on veil won't give u salvation. I don't understand why some church make such a big fuss over such a thing.
Looking back is it still relevant at this age & time to fully follow what is written in the Bible? isn't the people in those times have long hair including Jesus too? | | steven | 6. RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-12 09:17:45
Jehovah Witness, LDS all believe Jesus to be Lord, but they are normally regarded as heretics. Or even catholics, some protestants thought that they are heretics and vice versa. Also Muslims who believe in Jesus as the Messiah, the judge to come, are they saved?
It\\\'s the heart that matters? It\\\'s such a complicated thing. Does our belief justify us, i.e. save us? Do god look at \\\"RIGHT\\\" beliefs or just \\\"RIGHT\\\" heart, whatever that means? Let\\\'s not be complacent about this very complex issue. We cannot sweep the dirt underneath the carpet with the word \\\"sincerity\\\". One may be sincerely mistaken. Yet, I don\\\'t know, the \\\"right\\\" heart does matter. So do we need both? Or the right beliefs do result in the right heart?
Ah, questions, questions and more questions.
I am really looking forward to the session on woman and veil. But this is what i suspect a thorough exegesis (reading/interpretation) of the bible will look like; even if woman are required to veil, this requirement is in relation to the order of relation, which in our case, specifically (though not limited to?) the relationship between man and woman. Therefore, if a woman\\\'s modesty, faith or whatever is marked by a veil, which is an obvious symbol (definitely to a greater concept though less obvious - i don\\\'t know, don\\\'t ask me), what is the requirement to man? Perhaps we have too long looked in the wrong direction? I mean, it\\\'s not wrong as in saying a woman should or should not veil, but if we are in some sense meeting a dead end in looking at the requirement for woman, why not turn around and study the requirement for man? This is beneficial for two reasons:
1) to understand the complete picture of veil being a requirement because of woman\\\'s relationship with and place in Creation.
2) in a veil-church, an unveiled woman (i.e. one who breaks the rule) is easily spotted because she did not fulfil her requirment. But what is the requirement for man? No one knows whether a man is sinning (i.e. breaks the rule) or not? No one knows whether he fulfils hsi requirements or not because his requirement is less obvious than veiling? Or because his requirement is in the negative (and therefore easier as compare to a positive injuction?) , \\\"DO NOT keep long hair\\\", if that is indeed the requirement set on man in relation to the veil requirement set on woman?
Well, questions are dangerous! But the risk is worth taking if it is the way to the truth. My friend once said, Jesus is not the Answer, He is the Question!...wow hit me like a big truck and i nearly die...hahahaha...
| | steven | 7. RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-12 09:36:21
I cannot answer the questions posted..hahaha...i am a fellow questioner than a answer provider:
But the (2) and (4) questions caught me hard.
2)If a woman who is not baptise but belives in the Lord Jesus Christ, does she needs to wear a head veil?
4) Some churches let the woman go without head veil while other churches make it a must for woman to wear head veil.Is the church wrong in mistranslating what the scriptures says?
I am a strong adherent of sacrements, which according to reformed, protestant tradition (which is ..hehehe...forgive my arrogance, what the bible says) are two: baptism and lord's supper (eucharist - good grace). I strongly hold to the importance and the great mystery of the sacrament, that they are god's grace of means to us. In them, god, knowing we are flesh and blood, helped us to handle in things material that which is not material - god's love and grace. This is were faith meet with grace to provide us with a profound experience of identification with god, first with his death (baptism), then with his life (blood and flesh), it is significant that, there is only one death while we continually take in his life - forgive me if this is not palatable with anyone.
That said, i do not think sacraments save us, i.e. if i am not baptised (for a "good" reason, if there actualy maybe one), i am convinced that i am saved in Christ. If I am a follower of Christ, I do whatever he commands (or at least I OUGHT to do whateve he commands). Therefore if veil is required, then i veil, baptized or not. (I am not at all implying that veil IS required or NOT required)
For question 4, the Church has been, is still and will be committing errors on this side of eternity. The Church is full of sinners (albeit saved by grace, but sinners nonetheless) and therefore cannot expect to be perfect. I believe recently i commented that we have always lived with a fantasy that the church is flawless. I mean, we of all ppl should know better that man (and woman) are evil from young to the core. well, we of all ppl knwo that evil is still in the world. Why should we imagine everything is fine, why should we imagine the church is great, thank you, let's pray. And we all "pretend" to be surprised when one of us sinned. Okie, my point is, yes, if one church (denomination) says MUST veil, another church says NO veil, another church says WHATEVER, surely all of them cannot be right at the same time and one of them is wrong. And i would not be surprise or disheartened, let's allow one another to be human beings. I mean, no, we are not giving excuses to compromise on perfection, but if we face the fact, it'll help us to appreciate better what it means by "grace" and "forgiveness". The church is unique not because there is sinlessness, but because there is forgiveness, when there is sin. | | Galadriel | 8. RE: RE: Is it a must to wear head veil to church? | 2007-01-13 12:46:33
*reading reading........* err where was i? haijor have to re-read it again.
Obviously the context has been getting more n more complicated. Getting more n more confuse for me *birds flying ontop of the head*
I\'ll be looking foreward for Lisa point of view regarding this issue =) | |
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